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Maybe 20% in 4 years. Does this information apply to a 3.85 (nominal) li-po (OnePlus 6)? The charging capability is under 1C. That was a very helpful post. Best Regards, No, Xiaoping, you are the one guilty of the lion’s share of the charges you fling at me. Somebody suggested 10% to indicate a deeper discharge in an effort to calibrate the battery but that is different subject altogether which your new battery will not require now. I just purchased a Makita 18 volt sub-compact Drill/Driver and impact drill kit. Several commentators have confirmed what I long suspected: that a smart charger will detect when a battery is full and dial back the voltage. I don’t recommend fully discharging and charging your batteries for these first few times to “prime” your battery, just use it normally unless your battery percentage meter is inaccurate and needs to be calibrated then do a full cycle. Thanks Peter Baillie. Feed computer directly and feed battery via simple current sensor. Actually I’m little bit confused with that DoD theory. Your words: “No, he should NOT wait until the battery is discharged to 11% That would be one of the deep discharges that shortens battery life.”. Do I allow it to completely discharge then? This, as I understand, will make the battery loose it’s capacity more quickly. From the data plot we see that if the battery discharge is driven at 100% to 25% range it reaches 90% capacity retention after 1000 cycles. For Tina ~  Complete discharge is known as deep discharge. If it detects excessively long absence from a mains supply, it warns the user. I wanted to thank you for this advice for lithium based batteries. I heard the battery life reduces if we keep the charger plugged-in (charing) after the battery is 100% - is it true? Based on that, I suggest you do not let your battery drop lower than 30%. My drive is ~22 mi one way, which uses ~10% battery. 2. In theory such a mechanism should work forever, but cycling, elevated temperature and aging decrease the performance over time. Totally fine to disconnect at 80%, just look at figure 6 to charge how you want it. Just remember never to store batteries at 100%, no matter what. I am worried that the variation and peaks in power will damage the battery of my laptop. How often is the “Dynamic Stress Test” standard used to scientifically quantify the capacity fade characteristics of battery cells? Who gets rid of a battery just because the cell phone only offers 3 weeks of standby instead of 4? This SUV is a great example of beauty and brawn with classic styling and a workhorse power plant. Only a full cycle provides the specified energy of a battery. I’ve found the same for Ni-Cad (obviously) and also NiMH. My personal experience in using rechargeable batteries for the last 20 years consistently agrees with this rule. You reduced the depth of discharge by 10%, but gives nearly 10x more cycles. The voltages of lithium iron phosphate and lithium titanate are lower and do not apply to the voltage references given. And, there’s another thing. The data doesn’t seem to match the conclusions of the article. New payments and your economy. BU-1005: Does the Fuel Cell-powered Vehicle have a Future? I found that the bike’s ECM and instrument cluster will drain the pack in about 6 weeks of non-use so I’ve started making use of its quick disconnect. Does the above care, use and charging instruction apply equally to EV lithium batteries? This could be what is going on with your 58% vs 73% values. Also is LiPo4 equivalent to LiFePo4, mentioned in the following article LiFePo4: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion? I understand keeping it between 80%-40% is probably ideal but for this kind of device it isn’t really doable without large disruptions to the experience. I am concerned about undercharging a Li-Battery. BU-602: How does a Battery Fuel Gauge Work? Notebooks not just turn off automatically, they also need a pretty high charge level to even power up, so using up the battery entirely still leaves enough charge for the battery to not be damaged (anything else would be a pretty big oversight/design flaw, wouldn’t it). depth of discharge. Batteries are incredibly variable - some will hold designed capacity after many cycles, some aren’t so lucky. @Matt.J ~ If my suggestion is in contradiction to this article, why does even a company like HP has pop ups coming at 14% and then again at 11% by DEFAULT.. Battery manufacturers often specify the cycle life of a battery with an 80 DoD. @Alex: Scan Duration 60 seconds Each battery has 4 cells approx 3.5v If not, please explain so myself and Tina can understand it. The gap between 50% and 25% discharge would probably also get a lot smaller, or may be even vanish at all. Is the voltage level 0.0V at 0% DoD? I believe you introduced LiFePO4 into the discussion. Will burn, will explode. He tends to charge his phone in short stints where I tend to never attach to the charger unless I can leave it long enough to fully charge. Jeff, I think it is just stated to be equivalent for practical purposes because it is close enough. Theoretically discharging to 10% of DoD in your case can be done 10 times and that is count as one charge cycle. today I feel happy   that   i am in a position to reassure people. The long and the short of it all is to just enjoy your Tesla and get an update when the computer can no longer disguise the complex reality of EV battery management. The icon read “plugged in” but it wouldn’t charge the laptop. Similar to a mechanical device that wears out faster with heavy use, the depth of discharge (DoD) determines the cycle count of the battery. Electric vehicles often use a combination of two or more different chemistries, to achieve both high-current and high-capacity benefits. They’re stronger, and thus more damaging, at high temperatures and high or low charge states. I don’t intent to use the devices daily nor even monthly. For nickel-cadmium some people recommend occasional full-discharge and the re-charge, citing the “memory effect” of nickel-cadmium chemistry - I think your question may be about nickel-cadmium. B4. Can a battery be frozen allowed to thaw and be fine? A battery may fail within the allotted time due to heavy use or unfavorable temperature conditions; however, most packs last considerably longer than what the stamp indicates. My point was, in theory, the shorter you keep the charge times (lower depth of discharge), the more life you can squeeze out of the battery. I have a question - I see lot of experts here, I would be thankfull if someone can answer this question. I would have had the designers head for missing this condition. I now believe that it is wrong. While a higher voltage boosts capacity, exceeding the voltage shortens service life and compromises safety. Something else? Another question, is it capable of dealing with Qualcomm’s QC which raises the voltage to 9V? Perhaps some device manufacturers are preventing deep discharges, so the advice to not discharge too far may need to be taken with a grain of salt if you’re using a device that has already taken this into account. I have one question: if we limit the voltage to 4.10, then we can expect 85-90% of full capacity available (Table 4). Cheap battery cells will not last very long. R&J Batteries’ Car Battery Finder will help you source the right battery for your car, ute, SUV, sedan, hatch back, 4WD or pumped up hot rod. Yeah, the difference between 10 and 89% (or 90 and 11% if you want to look at the charge levels) is obviously small…, “And how did you miss the title of the article? After discharge the battery should be fully charged back because, 2.Prolonged discharge state of the plate causes sulphation, 3. I pull out the battery whenever I have access to power outlet. They utilize a gore valve to help with the heat when the batteries and components expand. I use a custom battery pack on a motorcycle consisting of eight A123 (LiFePO4) cells in a series/parallel arrangement. (The number of cycles is *dependent* on the charge/discharge rate). All numbers are made up by me just to show the point. and in hot climate. I also wanted to point out the results of cycle life on fast charging. The battery has been used and abused. Windows allows to go way below 11% (Xp 3%, Vista/7 5%), so as a result millions batteries would be damaged and a plethora might catch fire and burn…but that doesn’t happen…and for a reason: A deep discharge per definition is when the cell voltage drops below a specified value. How do I store my lithium batters for the winter, I use them in my yard tools. Again charge your battery ( with your computer off ) and use your battery as above. Doing the same for a 3.6/3.7v will drastically reduce cycle life. In early 2015, I purchased a Novatel T1114 WiFi hot spot with Voice router (Verizon), it uses a Lith-ion cell for operating the voice telephone segment during power outages. Link? While a cell phone battery is the sole source of energy for a cell phone’s life and is being recharged on a regular basis, a notebook battery is only there to deliver occasional power to a much greater extent. Cordless drills and other similar items are NOT lifetime. you give to a battery at a time matters or only SoC (=voltage) is important in this case. That runs coulombs of current through the cell drawing on its cycle life. Please assist with your valuable feedback/comments/suggestion. I have read the whole book” Batteries in a Portable World” and I would recommend it to anyone who would like to have a better understanding of batteries and the characteristics of each chemistry. Its storing them flat that’s the problem. Thank you for answering edward. Moreover it is permanently connected to the AC power. This will show the guide withing your browser and will be downloadable from there. The figure 6 is just mind blowing! My own opinion is that whoever sold you these is blowing smoke to stall you and prevent you from asking for a refund. This has been agreed upon by HP too.. The data in Figure 6 is provided by a study that uses lab tests to measure the battery performance. Hi. Device ID USB\VID_8087&PID;_0024 I just purchased a 20v “professional” cordless drill/driver (Craftsman brand) from Sears at 60% off the original price. I thank you in advance for you help They clicked away the ad budget for the day almost in the blink of an eye. It depends. Report GUID {4c1be59a-4825-4928-86fe-85fb4c23ba61}. With quick charge turned off, you can charge from your mains adapter much faster than your USB port with nearly no difference in longevity up to 0.5C. 75% multiplied by 1000 which gives 750 C. “C” is the full virgin capacity. So, even if the words you laid in my mouth were actually uttered by me, I’d still be right due to the fact that you didn’t analyze what you argued with. No Matt, you just can’t read and throw any term into the ring that makes sense to you, regardless of its meaning. I just bought a Craftsman 20 v Li-Ion Professional drill (display model). Avoid so-called ultra-fast chargers that claim to fully charge Li-ion in less than one hour. As far as I can tell, the study cited for Figure 6 indicates that they use a constant charge rate of 1C for recharging in the study, but most Li-Ion chargers use a tapered rate and avoid 1C near 100% SoC. View all 40 Amazon promo codes, coupons & free shipping codes that for Apr 2021. @Rajdeep and @Matt J…I am a bit conflicted now with what you are both saying. 60-70% is better than 50-70%. Primary lithium does, but not Li-ion. (Something about the overcharge turning into static which compromises the adapter.) So, If I the ideal storage is at 40% but after a few days the charge drops to 30%, how can you keep it stored at 40%? My reply was about explaining how 11% is NOT a deep discharge, because there is a clear definition of what a deep discharge is and which you apparently don’t know. All being linear, the life-prolonging mid-range of 85-25 percent reduces the energy to 60 percent and this equates to moderating the specific energy density from 250Wh/kg to 150Wh/kg. I bought it on Amazon. Is it 50% or 25%? i dont like to wait for my machine to switch on if i resume my work. Cycling in mid-state-of-charge would have best longevity. Why 10x? The second method takes much longer (also stress), but never make the cell’s voltage above 4.1 volts, being 90%. I know the recommended SoC for a single 3.7 volt Li-Ion battery cell is between 3.82~3.92 volt. There seems to be a lot of controversy on the subject of lithium-ion batteries and what you should do with them when you first receive them. @ Matt.J. Battery experts believe that this threshold eliminates all voltage-related stresses; going lower may not gain further benefits but induce other [degradation processes].”  (The actual quote was “symptoms”, but my sense is that degradation processes is more accurate language. I tried reading and understanding the article but my brain cannot seem to process it. My wife uses her phone a lot and only averages 360 cycles on her iPhone 6s+ after 1.7 years. Either way avoids keeping the battery at full state of charge all the time and repetitive charging (starting charge on a fully chargd battery) which is detrimental to battery life. Expatica is the international community’s online home away from home. Not having to match single cells in mobile phones and tablets, as is required in multi-cell packs, opens the floodgates for a much broader performance acceptance. If you have a 100% DoD you’ve now gotten 10 units of use per recharge. You are the one who completely missed what the article says, I got it right. On a side note, when you buy a new battery, the first 3-4 charge cycles are very likely going to give you a lower total capacity than what the battery is capable of, but this should be amended after about 10 cycles. Fully charged my batteries are only around 3.5 V.  See page 2 here: http://www.a123systems.com/Collateral/Documents/English-US/A123 Systems ANR26650 Data Sheet.pdf. Keeping the battery always at full charge and especially plugged on a charger for long time will shorten it’s life. Is it ok to buy an aftermarket device to lower charge Voltage on a laptop? The question most raised is life. This will add to the life of the battery. I set a profile to start charging when it drops below 70% and charges only to 90%. As the battery can not be removed never let it go below 80% or gradualy it will get old, you use it at home right? some will run for days again others maybe only a few hours. If so, how often? The condition you describe sounds to me like the internal resistance of the batteries is rising. I did not, however read all the comments, which are quite a lot. I think 50-60 x2 would be best & lowest amps that work. And charge to 100% when you know you are going to need it! Battery experts believe that this threshold eliminates all voltage-related stresses; going lower may not gain further benefits but induce other symptoms. Remember different companies make different formulations of Lithium ion and Li-polymer that behave differently like High power, High capacity, long life ... there is always a trade off. Also for my electric bike is this the best SoC to maintain capacity at a prolonged period. Table 2 states that a certain level of degradation will occur after ~400 cycles, whereas Figure 6 presents a lesser level of degradation after exceeding ~4,000 cycles. @Mike - if the drill carries the standard Craftsman “forever” warranty, you can always return the drill if the batteries prove to be unsatisfactory. In one of these articles the author points out that the worst thing you can do to your battery is to use it while you are charging, yet that is what most of us are constantly doing with a cell phone; It gets low on charge, and you still need to use it, so you plug it in and continue your conversation. (That’s true, if I leave the UltraSlim attached while I work, the battery runs down. Secondly, the number of charges is determined by using an arbitrary value of battery life. Hopefully insightful engineers will eventually provide a utility in a device’s operating system which will allow us to select our own desired peak charging voltage within a range of 3.92 V/cell to 4.20 V/cell. This kind of notebook was plainly designed to prevent the user from removing the battery. I have to assume that these items have been sitting in a warehouse or store uncharged for over four years. This lines up with Figure 6 above that shows 25-75% has a higher capacity over time than 50-100%. Is it really okay to leave it plugged in at 50% almost all the time.? Maybe the best approach is to only charge our phones to about 75% or so and stop. If you want to do the best you can to prolong the overall battery-life of your powerbank, then yes. I still find myself draining the battery before I find a charger, today it was too many birds and not enough pigs, but I’m getting better. I can only assume at this point that they should be charged at more at than 18 volts. 10% * 4700 cycles = 470 times full capacity, Dont listen to these people thats crazy there saying if u store ur battery in ur fridge at 0c your battery will only lose 2% per year? And its advisable to have lower than 4.20 right? So the whole energy transferred to the device when sycling at 100%-25% is From my side, I would recommend not to use animated wallpapers which might eat not just the battery but also the processor speed. Another issue: do you recommend keeping the battery charge in 40% or it’s not necessary? I havent read all the comments so I apologise if I am repeating what has been said! Not just because they’d sell a falsely advertised product, but also because it would be dangerous. That is, the 100% discharge got 10 times the power ouput as compared to the 10% depth. Fred- Charging a battery in just seconds is NEVER a good idea, ‘batman forever’. 25% DoD provides 625 units; and I would update the calculations to account for that but I have already had enough fun for the day. If I buy a lithium ion “new battery”(no named brand) that has a date stamped on it from 2016 should I use it in my Samsung cell phone? A charge rate of C/2 = 0.8A would need two hours ...  to fully charge the battery from an empty state, if supported by the battery. We will do full charge and discharge to a certain level or always keep in AC power. Is the information I received correct (re: mAh) or should I attempt to purchase a battery with the highest possible rating? During that time, I tried the same thing—leaving it always plugged into the AC adapter that came with it which I plugged into the wall. The first “85%” should be “70%”, to be consistent with the graphs. (1) Charge it 4 hours every day (2) only charge it when it dies and stops functioning. Is this right? - DL. Heck my 3DS has been on for 3 days and still has 2/3 charge, tho a lot was in standby mode.

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