cpm spy27 vs s110v

If they found a small amount of ferrite in S110V that would have contributed to the decision to increase Co, of course. You will also see I have two compositions listed for S110V, one labeled “patent” and one labeled “final.” The initial version of S110V was modified leading to the version that we have today. In terms of carbide differences, the total carbide content was slightly increased in the final version, primarily from an increase in chromium carbide (labeled M7C3 below). Product Description. This is the only example of using cobalt for this purpose in a stainless tool steel that I am aware of, and is one of the biggest innovations of S110V in my opinion. You can see the difference in the micrographs below. This choice comes down to how important corrosion resistance is to the application. Your email address will not be published. S110V has somewhat more carbide than S90V, making it even more impressive that the carbide size is finer. Since its introduction it has been extremely popular and quickly rose to flagship status. I use very high temperature of 1220°C (2228°F) to ensure all carbides are all dissolved . I have asked current Crucible metallurgist Bob Skibitski as well as the main inventor on the patent, Alojz Kajinic, and neither knew why the change was made as they were not directly involved with it. ; 9% of Vanadium: Improves wear resistance and hardenability. And if the formation temperature is too high, carbides will form in the melt before the steel can be gas atomized to form the powder. So more heat treatments would have to be tested to see if greater toughness at lower hardness could be achieved. Metallurgy and Testing of Knives and Steel. Like its bigger brother, the Para 3 has the Compression Lock, textured G-10 scales, and a full-flat ground blade. Learn more in this article about carbides. Niobium, like vanadium, forms very hard carbides that contribute greatly to wear resistance. I have 2 spydercos in 110 and maxamet as well, and they have crisp edges as well. Ball milling is used to refine carbides when they are added directly to powder, such as adding tungsten carbide to steel powder prior to HIPing. $140.00. S110V=26 Maxamet=24 M390=26. It does offer the best sharpenability of the very high edge retention stainless steels because of less vanadium carbide, however, and it also has very good corrosion resistance. In previous corrosion testing I performed, I found that the effect of Mo topped out at a certain level, but it would be surprising if Crucible also came to a similar conclusion. ; 15.25% of Chromium: For tensile strength and Edge retention, and enhances corrosion resistance and wear resistance. I haven’t performed a full range of heat treatment experiments on S110V, but comparisons with S90V show the two heat treating relatively similarly. Like many other very high wear resistance stainless steels (S90V, M398) it was developed for plastic injection applications which necessitate a combination of high wear resistance and high corrosion resistance. Larrin, you could put your book’s cover photo on the top right cornor of every page with hyperlink, like the wood-database dose. Chromium carbides are softer than vanadium carbides and therefore contribute less to wear resistance. However, the patent for S110V specifically calls out 154CM as a basis of design with its 14Cr-4Mo, providing good corrosion resistance with less Cr, and that can be seen in the initial version of S110V with 14Cr-3.5Mo. You can see that S90V and S110V are along a similar trendline (only the 2150 condition of S110V is shown). As a side note, both the original and new version of the S110V datasheet shows the following for heat treatment/hardness data: However this primarily shows the hardness that results in the upper tempering range, where Mo has the biggest effect on hardness. adding niobium carbide “if all regarding problems solved” to this steel can push hardness/edge retention to a very high numbers . CPM s90v Edge Retention: With a high presence of vanadium and carbon, s90v steel offers extreme edge retention (might be the best in the steel). and again adding fine carbides will adds to both hardness and edge resistance . S110V has a finer carbide structure than either S90V or S125V. However, Crucible’s testing was with the original S110V which, as I described before, would have a greater proportion of NbC and VC carbides for wear resistance. CPM-154. there is no doubt that if all of these 10% carbides are vanadium or niobium carbides instead of mostly M6C carbides which are much softer the hardness will be increased slightly , while the edge resistance will be increased greatly and still retaining the same toughness . using 5% Ni instead gives Ms of about -66°C (-87°F) . I imagine a steel combining the corrosion resistance of marine-grade 316 stainless steel with the edge resistance of M4 , 15V or even Rex121 in the near future . I’m eventually going to stop plugging my book Knife Engineering in every new article, but that day is not today. M390 vs S90V (CPM S90V) M390 Benchmade 20cv is outstanding in my book. There is hardenable stainless steels with just 0.03% carbon . I would estimate more like 0.3% carbon would be the limit with that much chromium. I didn’t know how realistic is Jmatpro but I’m sure that 0.5% carbon should secure 55-60 HRc hardess . However, a revised version of the steel was released, and the datasheet was revised in July 2010. Somewhat surprisingly, they both resulted in identical toughness despite the higher austenitizing temperature leading to higher hardness. I gotta ask what your hardness test results were. the effect of cobalt on raising martensite start temperature inspires me an idea . but the hardness is limited to only ~ 35 HRc . Spyderco Manix 2 Lightweight Knife Mineral Blue FRCP C101PCBL2 CPM-SPY27 Blade. The 11V steel would still be an upgrade over S90V for corrosion resistance because of the higher Mo in solution (see the Molybdenum section later on in this article). This process begins with a homogenous molten bath of high-alloy steel that is forced through a nozzle under high-pressure nitrogen gas to create a spray of small spherical droplets that quickly solidify into powder particles. However, an increase in both Cr and Mo means a significant improvement in corrosion resistance for S110V. Spyderco Native 5 Folding Knife 3" S110V Satin Plain Blade, Dark Blue FRN Handles - C41PDBL5 P8000. The results can be seen below. New. Native® 5 FRN CPM® SPY27™ $180.00. M390 vs S110V: I have a knife with M390. Realistically, in normal day to day use you would struggle to pick out any differences in comparison. This was confirmed in tests reported in the patent, where a cobalt free version had some ferrite present after heat treatment, and only reached about 54 Rc. $140.00. That sounds low to me though I haven’t used JMatPro in the past to predict retained austenite. G-10, S110V, Authorized Dealer. This might be happening because the knives are from different manufacturers, using different heat treat and blade grinds? https://www.patreon.com/Knifesteelnerds, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window). $151.90. Handle Material: FRCP Read more about niobium additions in this article. I don’t know how much S110V would have been made into knives before the change in composition, but it is interesting that a relatively large change was made to the steel but without a name change. The changes were likely made to improve “manufacturability,” such as issues with gas atomization, forging, or annealing of the steel. This does not appear to be an issue of experimental variability as none of the tests performed on S110V resulted in as high values as the average result of S90V (each was tested 3 times). S90V was patented around 1996, the major innovation over previous steels was a reduction in Cr down to 14% which led to the formation of more vanadium carbide for a given amount of vanadium. ; 2.25% of Molybdenum: Increase Machinability and strength. So the amount of Ni and Mn needs to be kept to relatively low levels so that a good combination of hardness and corrosion resistance can be obtained. So forming austenite at high temperature is the first required step for the final heat treatment of a knife. Therefore, the approach with S110V was to have a combination of vanadium and niobium to improve corrosion resistance as much as possible while avoiding issues that come along with excess niobium. $165.00. Replacing nickel with cobalt in 316 would not make it hardenable has it would still need significant amounts of carbon to form hard martensite. This will be relevant to the toughness discussion later on. This ball bearing lock has blue fiberglass-reinforced co-polymer handles with a wire tip-up pocket clip and a lanyard hole. S110V. But I still don’t know for sure why S110V wasn’t as good as S90V in testing. However, there is a very specific reason that cobalt is found in S110V. These heat treatments all included a cryo step after quenching. This elite expression of the Manix 2 Lightweight combines its weight-saving advantages, full-service cutting power, and the strength of the Ball Bearing Lock™ mechanism with the enhanced edge retention and corrosion resistance of CPM SPY27. CPM S110V Steel Chemical composition . $140.00. Thanks to Aaron @ Gough Custom, Aaron McVay, Mark Scott, Jeffrey St. Claire, Grant Seim III, and saiiiiiii1 for becoming Knife Steel Nerds Patreon supporters! However, I have some speculation about why the composition was changed. In Stock . *Model: C101GPDBL2 *Overall length: 8.0" *Blade length: 3.37" *Steel: CPM S110V *Handle: Dark Blue G-10 *Reversible pocket clip for left/right, tip-up carry *Oversized lanyard hole. I have not had hardness testing done on the S90V or S110V, only on the Maxamet, but I assume that Spyderco has a similar hardness level in both S90V and S110V. S110V is a powder metallurgy stainless tool steel with very high wear resistance. The reasoning and test results seem totally convincing, but I can imagine companies preferring to stick with the steel makers reccomended heat treatments. the results says that the retained austenite was only 7% . The reduction in Mo from the original version (3.5%) to the final version (2.25%) likely means that these values are no longer accurate. With S110 you have to battle burrs just like S30. S110V and S90V are my favorites in the very high edge retention stainless steel category, depending on the level of corrosion resistance that is necessary for the application. Note that the values below are normalized to the hardness of the tested toughness specimens. CPM s90v Corrosion Resistance: Great Corrosion Resistance due to 14% of Chromium, which makes s90v stainless steel (Once steel has more than 10-12% of chromium in it it’s considered stainless steel). Both super steels. I have seen almost no discussion of the change in composition, and I think most people are unaware that it ever changed. Different steels will transform to austenite at different temperatures. Please see photos for additional details. Over the years there have been a vast number of variations and sprint runs using various steels and handle materials.Steels have run the gamut from ATS-34 back in the 1990’s to CPM S30V in the early 2000’s a… The steel has good properties including high edge retention and corrosion resistance along with decent toughness. Buy spyderco native 5 from Knifecenter.com - The Original and Largest Online Catalog of Cutlery It's a manual opener with a thumb hole. Chromium, Vanadium, Niobium, and Molybdenum are all “ferrite stabilizers” which means that they raise the temperature at which austenite will form, because they stabilize the typical room temperature phase of steel and iron called ferrite. This makes sense because of the lower carbide content of S90V, while the smaller carbides of S110V provides better toughness than S125V despite the similar carbide content. In my original corrosion resistance experiments with 1% saltwater I found S110V to have very good corrosion resistance, certainly a significant upgrade over S90V and S125V, and being similar to M390, another grade with very good corrosion resistance. most of these carbides are of M6C type while only 1.7% by volume is vandium carbides . Previous steels like S60V, Elmax, and M390 all had 17-20% Cr which gave them more chromium carbide and less vanadium carbide. So being conservative we would say that S90V is tougher than S110V which has higher toughness than S125V. However, a full replacement of vanadium with niobium is difficult to do. In heat treatments of S30V, S35VN, S45VN, and SPY27, an increase in austenitizing temperature was found to increase both hardness and toughness, so this result would be consistent with that. $235.00. Spyderco Manix 2 Lightweight SPY27 Mineral Blue FRCP Folder C101PCBL2 . The carbide volume of S110V is closer to S125V which is significantly coarser. Matching 316 corrosion resistance while also reaching 60+ Rc would be very difficult even with cobalt. And niobium carbide contains very little chromium. This uses a standard rectangular knife ground to 0.015″ prior to putting a final edge of 15 dps with a 400 grit CBN matrix stone. To look at this difference I used ThermoCalc to estimate the amount of carbon, chromium, and molybdenum in solution with S90V, the patent version of S110V (2.8C-14Cr-9V-3.5Mo-3.5Nb-2Co), and then a modified version of S110V which has 11% V instead of 9%V-3.5%Nb (2.8C-14Cr-11V-3.5Mo-2Co). There was a somewhat surprising and little discussed composition change with S110V, for mostly unknown reasons (though probably related to manufacturing). Regardless, the edge retention of the steel is high and perhaps worrying about whether or not it is as good as S90V isn’t of practical use. 2.8% of Carbon: It improves hardness and wear/corrosion resistance, but a high amount of it decreases strength. Model # SP-C101PCBL2 . Therefore, I see the main choice being between S110V and S90V for best very high edge retention stainless. All of this in combination with the powder metallurgy technology gives S90V a relatively fine microstructure for good toughness along with high wear resistance from the high vanadium content. However, S90V and the modified S110V (labeled 11V) have 11.5% Cr in solution while S110V (9Nb-3.5Nb) has 12.3% Cr in solution, which would provide better corrosion resistance. This is also a powder-metal steel produced by American steel company Crucible. That article explores a lot of aspects about cobalt because there isn’t much of a good reason to be in VG10 at all. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. The high chromium affects the amount of vanadium carbide that is formed, and the high vanadium actually promotes the formation of chromium carbide, dropping corrosion resistance and toughness. This is not scientific, bit here goes. I then calculate Ms and plot vs hardness to see where hardness starts to drop from excess RA. The standard blade steel of the Native 5 is CPM S30V stainless steel, but Spyderco has expanded that offering with additions like super high-grade CPM-S110V and Maxamet steels. This elite expression of the Manix 2 Lightweight combines its weight-saving advantages, full-service cutting power, and the strength of the Ball Bearing Lock™ mechanism with the enhanced edge retention and corrosion resistance of CPM SPY27. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Model # SP-C101PCBL2 . ... SPY27. S90V offers somewhat better toughness and edge retention making it more balanced for applications that need only medium corrosion resistance. The reduction in Nb may have led to the other changes in the steel. Because niobium is a strong carbide former, it wants to form carbides at very high temperatures, often in the liquid steel. 154CM, dating back to around 1959, had 4% Mo though the Mo addition was to maintain hardness at higher temperatures in bearing applications, not necessarily improved corrosion resistance. S110V has a similar Mo content as well so it should still have better corrosion resistance than S45VN. However, what is surprising is that it did worse than S90V. CPM S110V is a high-alloy martensitic stainless tool steel manufactured by the Crucible® Particle Metallurgy (CPM) process. If more corrosion resistance is required then S110V is the way to go. The second model to come out with the new SPY27 steel is the Manix 2. this should be called “super steel” . See more hardness measurements of S90V in this article. S110V is essentially S90V with more C, Cr, Co, Mo, and Nb, and it is difficult to think of scenarios where adding more of … Go buy one for yourself, and everyone you know, as a Christmas present. Being a little bigger than the Para 3 and utilizing the strong ball bearing locking mechanism and light weight FRCP handles this is sure to be a great knife. You can see that the carbon in solution is similar across the three grades, meaning each would achieve similar hardness. When knife steel is heat treated you have to heat it to high temperature to “austenitize” the steel prior to quenching to transform the steel to hard martensite. Same techniques and tools – DMT plates, ceramic rods, diamond paste strops. $212.00. Spyderco Native 5 Lightweight Folding Knife 2.95" CPM-SPY27 Satin Plain Blade, Cobalt Blue FRN Handles - C41PCBL5 P7200 Combined, these features offer a distinctive look and exceptional edge geometry. The patent for the steel was first filed in 2006 by inventors Alojz Kajinic, Andrzej Wojcieszynski, and Maria Sawford, all of Crucible Steel. As I wrote in my M398 article, I am not a big fan of the steel because of its coarse structure and relatively low toughness. Once the carbides have formed in the melt they are significantly larger than if they form during solidification of the powder, reducing toughness. I don’t know the cause but I’m convinced it’s a real effect. Below I have plotted the steel also in relation to other stainless steels along with a hardness-toughness trendline from S60V. All Rights Reserved, This highlights the outstanding performance of CPM S110V, CPM S110V steel, very high quality, excellent performance. CPM-154 is an excellent EDC blade steel with above average edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. In Crucible’s wear resistance testing of the original S110V, they show the following chart for wear resistance, that appears to show an improvement over S90V: However, if you plot those values versus hardness it becomes apparent that the two steels have the same wear resistance: So Crucible’s data shows that there was no improvement in wear resistance from S90V to S110V, which lines up relatively well with our edge retention testing. CPM M4 will even out wear M42 in applications where red hardness is not the controlling property. Since Nb improves corrosion resistance by helping the Cr go further, they may have attempted to compensate for the reduction in Nb by increasing the bulk Cr from 14% to 15.25%. But S30 at least eventually gets sharp, S110 never does (for me). vasco MA which contains only 0.5% C reach a maximum of 62 HRc while the M2 can reach 65-67 HRc due to presence of about 10% volume of undissolved carbides . In applications where it has been traditionally necessary to use a high cobalt material for red hardness, e.g. Also, the chromium “in solution” to contribute to corrosion resistance was actually improved in S90V relative to the earlier S60V by careful control over the carbon and vanadium content, despite the bulk chromium being lower. But not S110. The Manix2 Lightweight CPM S110V combines the ultra-lightweight construction of our award-winning Manix2 Lightweight with a blade ground from premium Crucible CPM S110V. I covered the history of them in more detail in a previous article. For example, S30V had increased Mo over the earlier S90V/S60V for improved corrosion resistance, and that trend continued thereafter with other Crucible products.

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